Nader has Novak for lunch…
[Quite an impressive performance by Nader… too bad he didn’t start running earlier, as a Green. :/ -Thomas]
18) SHOW: CNN CROSSFIRE 16:30; January 5, 2004
Transcript # 010500CN.V20
WASHINGTON D.C.: WILL RALPH NADER RUN FOR PRESIDENT?
Will Ralph Nader run for president in 2004?
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on
the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: Will he or won’t he run for president again?
RALPH NADER, FORMER GREEN PARTY PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don’t know
whether the Democrats really know how to beat Bush.
ANNOUNCER: Ralph Nader joins us to talk politics and about his political
future — today on CROSSFIRE.
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and
Robert Novak.
(APPLAUSE)
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Hello, everybody. Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
We’re exactly two weeks away from the Iowa caucuses. Today’s special
guest is not, however, seeking the Democratic Party’s nomination in Iowa
or anywhere else. The Democrats worry, and Republicans hope, that he
will run for president as an independent.
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: Ralph Nader, he doesn’t have a chance of getting
elected to the White House. But, if he runs again, maybe he can do to
Howard Dean what he did to Al Gore in 2000….
…NOVAK: As the Green Party’s presidential candidate in 2000, Ralph
Nader got almost three million voters, to finish third. Nader and the
Green Party, however, have parted company this year. And it doesn’t
look like the Democrats are going to nominate Nader’s favorite
candidate, Congressman Dennis Kucinich.
Will Ralph Nader run as an independent? We’ll ask him, as he steps into
the CROSSFIRE.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Nice to see you. Thank you for coming.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
NADER: Thank you.
BEGALA: Will you run for president in 2004?
NADER: I’m going to decide later this month. I’m in an exploratory
stage, which, under the rules, means that you solicit any indication of
advice, fund-raising, volunteers, support. Our Web site is
NaderExplore04.org, for anybody who wants to let us test the waters.
BEGALA: But you’re not an indecisive man. And you’re generally not
thought of sort of a typical politicians, giving weaselly answers. Why
not just tell the truth? Why not just say, yes, I’m going to run or,
no, I’m not?
You — I just — frankly, I don’t believe that you don’t know. I think
you have decided and you ought to just tell us.
NADER: Gee, I didn’t know you were a mind reader. I knew you were
insightful, but…
(LAUGHTER)
NADER: That — that decision will be made before the end of the month.
NOVAK: Mr. — Mr. Nader, let me read — put something up on the screen
from Elizabeth Horton Sheff, who is an African-American and she is a
Green Party member, Hartford City council person.
She said — she of you: “His appeal is not broad enough to reach my
community,” meaning African-Americans. “We should run someone only if
they have a proven track record appealing to a cross-section of
America.”
Isn’t that your problem as the leader of the left, that the blacks just
don’t like you?
NADER: What do you do with this?
(LAUGHTER)
NADER: I mean, when he was in short pants, I was fighting for civil
rights. I was against the kind of standardized testing that was racial
in impact, fighting against redlining, fighting against predatory
lending, fighting against these ripoffs in the inner city, against
asbestos contamination, asthma. What are you talking about?
I even endorsed her at her press conference in Hartford. Now, maybe you
should have Randall Robinson or Cornel West or Troy Duster or other
leaders in the African-American community why they endorsed me.
NOVAK: Well, in that case, in that case, Mr. Nader, if she is that
unfair, you have just about worn out your welcome in the Green Party,
haven’t you?
NADER: No.
I think the Green Party is waiting too long to make a decision as to
whether they want a candidate, and, if so, under what conditions,
whether they want to run the candidate in the close states or all-out.
And that decision is going to be made
in June. And it’s too late.
BEGALA: Let me show you some of the states, well, two of the states,
where your vote was decisive in favor of President Bush, those two being
New Hampshire and Florida.
In New Hampshire, Mr. Bush, Governor Bush then, carried the state by
7,211 votes. You got 22,198. In Florida, of course, very famously, even
with the rigged count, even the Republicans could only pretend that Bush
had a margin of 537 votes. You got 97,488. Those two states alone are 29
electoral votes. All Al Gore needed was five. You did cost him the
election, didn’t you?
NADER: You left out two factors — three, actually. Gore did win the
election in Florida, as well as the rest of the country.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: But you made it close enough for them to steal it.
NADER: Just minute. Just minute. Just minute.
One assumption is, all my votes come from Gores. It’s completely false.
The exit polls show 25 percent of my votes came — would have gone to
Bush; 38 percent would have gone to Gore. The rest would not have voted.
(CROSSTALK)
NADER: And the third thing — and the third thing you left are four
states that Buchanan swung against Bush, New Hampshire — New Mexico,
Iowa, Wisconsin and Oregon.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Well, we’ll ask Patrick that when he comes on the show.
NADER: So — but the point is — the point is…
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I dispute those exit polls.
But even if only 38 percent of your votes came from Gore, that would
have still delivered Florida and New Hampshire to Al Gore, which would
have made too solid a victory for Gore, even for William Rehnquist to
steal.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: So you bear no responsibility for the votes that you got?
(CROSSTALK)
NADER: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Let’s talk about — Paul, you’re a
good Democrat. You should talk about the thieves who stole the election
under George Bush.
NOVAK: He talks about it all the time!
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
NADER: Right. Right.
And talk about the blunderers on Gore’s side, who didn’t ask for a full
state recount, which would have got him the Florida count and got him
the election, and the Supreme Court, and Katherine Harris, and
mislabeling ex-felons. Focus on the Republican thieves who stole the
election, Democrat Paul.
NOVAK: I know — I know — I know both of you would love to dwell on
2000 and Florida.
NADER: Yes.
NOVAK: I think you do it at home every night, don’t you?
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: I do it here every day.
NOVAK: But — but moving — moving forward.
You know, a lot of people, Mr. Nader, think that there’s somebody out
there who’s nearly as good as you as being a good left-wing candidate.
And I’m going to — I’m going to read something that was said by him
that sounds very much like Ralph Nader to me. And we’ll put it up on the
screen: “We’ve allowed our lives to become slaves to the bottom line of
multinational corporations all over the world.”
Do you know who said that?
NADER: No.
NOVAK: Howard Dean said that.
NADER: Oh, well good for him.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Let me give you — let me give you…
NADER: So did — so, in various versions, did “BusinessWeek” and all the
other exposes of corporate crime and corporate control.
NOVAK: Well, let me — let me give you another chance.
NADER: Yes.
NOVAK: Here’s a — here’s a quote that sounds like Ralph Nader.
“In order to make capitalism work for ordinary human beings, you have to
have regulation. Right now, workers are getting screwed.”
Do you know who said that?
NADER: Howard Dean.
NOVAK: Howard Dean.
NADER: That a way for Howard Dean.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Why don’t you endorse Howard Dean?
NADER: First — first of all…
NOVAK: He sounds like Nader.
NADER: Those are words. We have to wait for deeds, don’t we?
But look at the — look at the facts here; 58,000 Americans die from
worker-related diseases every year. Compare that, say, to 9/11. They’re
both preventable; 65,000 Americans die from air pollution every year.
Compare that. Compare the 80,000 who died from medical malpractice in
hospitals. Why isn’t George Bush worried about those Americans, as he
ships our industry to the despotic communist regime in China? That ought
to bother you.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Howard — Howard — Howard…
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I’m sorry, Mr. Novak.
But a friend of yours, somebody who some of our audience may be familiar
with, Ronnie Dugger, the founder of “The Texas Observer,” one of the
great crusaders of the left and one of your strongest supporters when
you ran first in ‘96 and then 2000, had this to say recently, though:
“The only vehicle to defeat Bush next year” — this is in ‘03, he said
this — “is the Democratic Party. You start there or you don’t start
with reality. To elect Bush at a time when he’s waging war on the human
race, that to me is insane. If Ralph runs again” — that would be you,
Ralph Nader — “and tips it for Bush, it would be,” he said, “a
worldwide tragedy.”
There’s no stronger supporter of you in the past than Ronnie Dugger. How
do you answer somebody like that?
NADER: You answer by two fronts against Bush is going to be more likely
to defeat him than relying only on the Democratic Party, which will not
take him apart, the way an independent run will.
For example, the Texas state Republican Party platform is full of
positions opposed to Bush. That’s his own party back in Texas, right?
Why? Because a lot of conservatives and libertarians are furious with
Bush over the deficits, the invasion of privacy, the Patriot Act, the
civil liberties, the corporate subsidies, his comments on Taiwan, soft
on corporate crime, corporate pornography affecting their kids. Why
aren’t the Democrats trying to get those votes?
Those are millions and millions of votes.
BEGALA: With respect, every one of those issues is raised by Democrats
on the stump. Every — I’ve been out there and I’ve seen them. They
raise all of those issues.
NADER: But they don’t address them to people who are conservative,
because they think conservatives will never vote for the Democrats or
stay home and not vote for Bush, the way the Reagan Democrats helped
Reagan…
NOVAK: Mister…
NADER: … because they’re against abortion and they’re against gun
control.
NOVAK: Mr. Nader…
NADER: They shouldn’t write off those people.
NOVAK: Mr. Nader…
NADER: And, by the way, and, by the way…
NOVAK: What?
NADER: Another thing, I can take conservative principles, Bob, and show
you how Bush has been destroying conservative principles. Bush and his
big-business buddies are destroying the fundamental principles of
capitalism in our country.
(CROSSTALK)
NADER: Like, if you’re in trouble as a business, you don’t go to
Washington for a bailout.
NOVAK: Mister…
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Mr. Nader, I want to try to help you in your decision- making.
NADER: Yes. Yes.
NOVAK: As I understand it, the only candidate that you really approve of
on the Democratic side thoroughly is Congressman Kucinich. We know he’s
not going to be nominated. Therefore, since none of the other candidates
you approve of, either you run for president yourself or you support
somebody you don’t think is doing the right thing. Is that about — is
that correct?
NADER: Who’s not doing the right thing? Who would I support who’s not
doing the right thing?
NOVAK: Dean.
NADER: No.
We’re talking about amplifying the move to take apart the Bush
administration before he takes apart America and embroils us in more
wars based on lies. Listen, when the president of the United States
refuses to trust the American people with the truth, why should the
American people trust George W. Bush with the presidency?
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: All right, we’re going to have to take a break.
Just ahead, we’ll put Ralph Nader in the “Rapid Fire” and ask him about
a former prominent supporter who’s singing — this is a hint — a new
tune now.
And right after the break, the holidays are over, but the United States
remains on high alert. Wolf Blitzer has the latest on the threat.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWS BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
Time now for our “Rapid Fire” segment, where the questions and answers
come even faster than the Bush administration can give no-bid contracts
to Halliburton.
We’re talking with consumer advocate, former presidential candidate
Ralph Nader.
NOVAK: Mr. Nader, your Democratic candidate for president, Congressman
Dennis Kucinich, says we should pull the troops out of Iraq right now,
no matter what the consequences. Agree or disagree?
NADER: I don’t think he says right now.
I think with a proper transition. And they should be representing many
nations. More acceptable ones would be Islamic nation troops going into
Iraq. That’s more acceptable. And why are we sacrificing our troops
again and again, with massive injuries that don’t get reported,
compared to the fatalities, which do, properly? Do you know there are
1,000 soldiers sick from sandfly disease?
NOVAK: This is “Rapid Fire,” Mr. Nader.
NADER: Oh, you moved from sound bite to sound bark. OK, let’s go.
BEGALA: Sound nibble.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: When you ran against Al Gore and George W. Bush, you said there
wasn’t much
difference between them. Now trillions of dollars of tax cuts for the
rich from Bush, which Gore opposed, a war halfway around the world,
Bush supported, Gore opposed, devastation of our environmental
regulations. There was a huge difference, wasn’t there?
NADER: Well, now there’s a difference, because the Bush administration
has gone off the rocker. They’ve put the corporations in charge. The
people don’t rule here. They have corrupted elections. They’ve damaged
low-income people tremendously. They’ve enriched themselves with their
own tax cut. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, they’ve enriched themselves with
their own tax cut. They want to preserve their inheritance by getting
rid of the estate tax.
They’re not enforcing health and safety laws. Sure. When something gets
really bad, then the mediocre looks pretty good, doesn’t it?
NOVAK: Mr. Nader, your great supporter in the last campaign, Willie
Nelson, is not supporting you this time. He’s supporting Dennis
Kucinich.
NADER: I’m supporting Dennis.
NOVAK: Are you broken-hearted?
NADER: I’m supporting Dennis.
(BELL RINGING)
NADER: I’m urging Democrats to vote for Dennis Kucinich. How’s that for
a short
answer?
NOVAK: That’s short.
BEGALA: Ralph Nader, consumer activist, possible future presidential
candidate…
NADER: Thank you….
